Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s interview for the Talking of What Matters information and educational lesson themed Russia and the World, Moscow, February 13, 2023

Question: How can a young citizen help their country?

Sergey Lavrov: First, they need to get a profession, for which it is necessary to study well. This sounds obvious but in the contemporary world, knowledge is extremely important. The volume of knowledge depends on what the young person wants to become in life.

There is high demand for working professions, and respect for them. In vocational colleges, people learn various jobs. Those with an academic mindset are interested in the humanities. Those who want to develop advanced technology need to study the natural sciences, such as physics, chemistry, maths and electronics. There are currently many fields that are of crucial importance for the development of the countries in the key economic sectors.

In any case, all those who want to get a profession have to study. It is never too late to learn, and there is no such thing as too much learning.

And particularly now, when all areas of social life, science and production are developing rapidly. Even after getting a job (be it a job in a bank or the IT sector), it is necessary to remember the fast pace of life, to constantly learn about new developments and use them.

All of this gives a new meaning to life and new energy, when you do it not only for self-fulfilment, but you see that this is important for your country and see that fruits of your labour help improve the life of a city, a village or certain groups of people. I assure you, this gives us additional energy and motivation to work and develop as individuals.

Question: Why do you think public consensus is important for our multiethnic country? What is patriotism for you?

Sergey Lavrov: Public consensus is important for any country if it wants to move forward. Much has been done in Russia over the past 20 years to this end.

After the Soviet Union broke up into several independent states, trends towards further isolation emerged in the Urals, the Far East, and European Russia. It was a chain reaction. When things start to disintegrate, it is important to head off total and final disintegration. Russia’s leadership played a huge role in preventing that after Vladimir Putin was elected president in 2000 which made it possible to put an end to these processes not by forcing common nationhood on all republics and regions, but by finding generally acceptable and mutually beneficial solution to ensure the continued development of the Russian Federation.

This is what keeps us united and strong, including in the international arena. This also helped us agree on the country’s economy, culture and state building. Back then, the optimal balance was struck between the functions of the federal centre (central authorities) and the authorities which, in accordance with the Constitution, were transferred to the level of its constituent entities, such as regions, territories, republics, and autonomous areas.

Life does not exist in a frozen state; it is a process that brings change. New trends come with each historical period. They must be codified in legislation and the form of government which ensures the unity of the nation. This process is underway. Almost three years ago, the Constitution was amended to reflect a new phase in the evolution of our society.

National consensus is, without a doubt, something that is badly needed in my profession which is diplomacy. When you promote foreign policy initiatives and you know that the vast majority of the citizens are supportive of them, you work with much more enthusiasm and much more dedication. Our country’s foreign policy which, in accordance with the Constitution, is determined by the President, constantly runs its planned actions by the public.

To do so, the Foreign Ministry is using a number of mechanisms and tools to communicate with civil society, including the Business Council, which comprises about 30 heads of major state-run and privately owned companies and corporations. There is a Community Council. It represents about 50 non-governmental organisations which maintain regular contacts with us.

I hold yearly meetings with the heads of these NGOs. In the course of the year, my deputies and departments (each in their own area) meet with these NGOs and listen to what they have to say. For our part, we help them reach the international arena. The Alexander Gorchakov Public Diplomacy Fund was established at the Foreign Ministry by a presidential executive order. It is an effective entity that issues grants to public diplomacy organisations for them to hold joint events with their international colleagues and to gain insights from them which we can use in our work.

Public consensus is vastly important for foreign policy. I mean that sincerely. I am grateful to my employees, diplomats, and everyone else who makes our work possible and, of course, our citizens for highly appreciating our efforts. This underscores the broad-based support for the policies, set by Russian President Vladimir Putin, which we advance.

Those of you who decide to pursue a liberal arts path in life and international affairs as your specialty will never get bored.

If such an opportunity presents itself, our Ministry will do its best to help you learn this profession and become effective in it.

Question: What general idea could unite all people on the planet?

Sergey Lavrov: Many positive associations are coming to mind. I think that friendship is such an idea. This would be ideal. Friendship is a phenomenon that transcends all borders.

When I participated, after a long absence, in the 2017 World Festival of Youth and Students in Sochi, I felt a state I had experienced in my young years – a state of enthusiasm and satisfaction that you want to share with all others.  A wonderful atmosphere, the same as during the Olympic Games in Sochi. There was a fantastic atmosphere at the UEFA World Cup. No one was thinking about any under-the-carpet, concealed things. All people came to be together and attend a grand festival.

I know that world cups, festivals and Olympics are not held every day. Neither is every day festive. But if friendship is real, it helps on days that are not festive by far, in everyday life and at difficult times. If we take the whole of our planet, the globe for a criterion, I would define friendship as a means of avoiding any problems and difficulties, or even relations between countries descending into a violent stage, into wars.  

Major, influential powers, which are in control of global processes, bear a special responsibility. Our country, both during the Soviet period and after it became the Russian Federation of today, has always sought to be friends with others and look for friends on the political front abroad. We did this during the era of anti-colonial struggle, promoting close and friendly ties with countries and peoples in Asia and Africa. Today, this friendship is still alive.  My travels across Africa (I visited the continent twice in the last six months) convince me that not only the older generations but also their children and grandchildren (who have been given the right kind of upbringing) remember well the friendship that enabled their countries to throw off the yoke of colonialism and become independent. Our friendship has helped these countries to create their national economy, statehood, and armed forces.

Things can take a bad turn when some with influence on world processes decide to undermine prospects for friendship and sow enmity, rather than promote friendly relations.

Right now all of us are thinking about the developments in and around Ukraine. Decades ago, US political scientists and politicians, specifically Zbigniew Brzezinski, former National Security Advisor (1977-1981), openly declared the goal of not allowing Russia-Ukraine friendship under all circumstances. He said literally the following: With Ukraine, Russia is a great power; without Ukraine, Russia is an obscure regional player. Cynically, brazenly and sincerely.

We see to what extent the political aims of the United States are directed against friendship. Nothing has changed. The Americans have never been sincere, even when, after the dissolution of the USSR, it seemed that relations between the US and our country were acquiring new qualities. It was at that time that they launched a policy to maximally weaken, if not disallow, friendly ties between Russia and the other former Soviet republics. 

Ukraine has been turned into an enemy: they refused to encourage the friendship that has always been at the base of relations between the Russian and Ukrainian peoples since the 17th century, when the Pereyaslav Agreement was signed to seal the reunification of the two countries and peoples. But it was unacceptable to the West.

Our Western colleagues are claiming that America is the only power capable of ruling the world. Allegedly, what they need is to remove the Russian threat and then tackle the threat posed by China. A threat to what? They say honestly that it is a “threat to US domination.” 

The opposite tack of subordination and suppression, rather than friendship, is a trademark of US policy.  The United States has no friendly feelings even for its allies in Europe. Their relationship is one of suppression and submission. The EU attempted, some time ago, to say that it wanted to be an independent player, with sovereignty and sovereign strategic autonomy. They were told: “Don’t!” So, no one is talking about strategic autonomy any longer.   

The United States is urging the EU to give all-out support to Ukraine. The EU is shouldering the entire burden of this economic and financial support. It is hard to talk about any friendship under these circumstances.  This is the relationship of a suzerain and his vassals. Materially and financially, America is gaining more than others (or perhaps it is the sole beneficiary) from having planned and launched a war against Russia through its proxy, the Ukrainian regime.

I am for friendship. Far from all countries and peoples in the world, at least the elites in certain countries, have a tradition of friendship. They have an opposite tradition, that of deriving profit from whatever happens on the face of the earth.  Their logic is: we may be very good friends, but our tobacco is of different brands, or rather all your tobacco is mine.

I am for friendship. This is not a banal aim but an important tool that needs to be cherished.

Question: What do you think makes Russia different? What specifically sets it apart?

Sergey Lavrov: I believe any country is unique. Let's show respect for the love every nation has for its country and operate on the premise that we, too, should enjoy other countries’ respect for our love for the vast, beautiful, and multifaceted country that Russia is.

Russia is the world’s largest country with several climate zones ranging from glaciers to permafrost and ocean expanses to subtropics. In our country, people live as a family, which is important.

I’ve touched on accord in society earlier when I took the previous question. I won’t go over it again, but will just say that people who love their country and dedicate their talents to improving not only their lives, but the lives of every person living in the Russian Federation, are of great importance for any state, especially ours. Our history is of particular importance. Everyone needs to be aware of it and appreciate it.

The United States formed as a country of immigrants. They were not too kind to indigenous Indian tribes. You are probably aware of how it all played out. There are still people living in reservations there. They make it look as if their rights have been preserved.

There were also Indians in Canada. Immigrants rather quickly pushed them into the background. There are ongoing investigations into cases where hundreds of Indians were killed in Indian reservations. This happened in the late 20th century, but was discovered just now.

The United States is a country of immigrants who were assimilated. They even have that expression down there, the melting pot. Everyone was thrown in there and everyone came out looking the same, as they thought.

We can see, though, that the United States is populated by people who are far from like-minded. Largely due to the ideological struggle, that country is far from being united. One can glean that from the election outcomes and processes unfolding in the American politics. When they emerged, they wanted everyone to fit one standard. It didn't work out in full. But that was the concept.

Starting with Kievan Rus, then during the time of the Grand Principality of Moscow followed by the Tsardom of Russia and then the Russian Empire, our country always expanded its territory.

After the revolution, the Soviet Union (which continued as a state created by the Russian Empire) never threw the newly conquered peoples or the peoples which joined Russia of their own accord into the melting pot. Our country has always made it a point to preserve their languages, traditions, culture, and religion, as well as their ethnic and historical identity. It is important to cherish this legacy.

The Americans have United in Diversity written on their one dollar bill. I think our country has immeasurably greater diversity than the United States. The unity of our diversity is much stronger compared to serious confrontational processes unfolding in the United States between the Republican Party and the Democratic Party. This is not good for national accord and the state that claims to exist as single society.

The diversity of cultures, languages, religions, and traditions is one of democracy’s important dimensions. They are trying to explain democracy to us in an exclusively Western way, where elections should be held every 4 to 5 years, so that Western experts on democracy can see that everything is going well from their point of view.

But whenever democracy in the international arena is at stake, the Westerners back down. The UN Charter states that the global Organisation is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of states. Neither the United States nor their Western allies have any respect for it. They consider themselves above everything.

Let's take statements made by President Barack Obama, President Donald Trump, President Joe Biden or other US officials, statements that are readily available online. Each time their presidents speak before a large audience, they convey the idea that America is the one and only nation in the world and that it is an exceptional power and only it can keep the world in good shape and that if it were not for America, chaos would ensue. It’s a philosophy of a dictator, a monopolist, not a philosophy of a state that relies on cooperation, democracy, balance of interests, and formation of a stable international system based on several foundations.

Diversity guarantees our country’s unity as opposed to the US philosophy. Back in 2019, the current National Security Adviser to the President of the United States, Jake Sullivan, who held a different position at the time, wrote in one of his articles that America’s exceptionality should rely on avoiding making an emphasis on the historical and ethnic identity of other peoples, and American exceptionality must promote a common understanding of democracy throughout the world for all peoples. That’s a fairly serious and frank confession regarding the kinds of benefits that America is willing to bring to other nations. What it wants in reality is to bring everyone into a state that the Americans can understand, where it will proceed to form other nations in its own image and likeness and suppress, as was made unequivocally clear, their historical and ethnic identity.

It is important to ensure consent using democratic methods, but not necessarily the methods of democracy that the West believes is the only true democracy.

Question: Pyotr Stolypin said: “Give the state twenty years of peace, both at home and abroad, and you will not recognise today’s Russia.” What does peace, both at home and abroad, mean to Russia?

Sergey Lavrov: Stolypin answered this question himself. Arguing with his opponents, he said: “You need a great shock, we need a great Russia.” Twenty years were required to make Russia great. As soon as it was left in peace and not dragged into various wars, Russia always showed strong economic results within ten to twenty years. This was the case before World War I.

Whenever historical turns in Eurasia made Russia and Germany allies, they did really well and their influence became much stronger. Many disliked Russia-Germany rapprochement both on the eve of WWI and between WWI and WWII. The Western countries were openly preparing Germany for a war against the USSR, by signing non-aggression treaties with Germany in 1938-1939. When we had to sign such a pact, they said it triggered WWII.

The villainy of Western politicians is well known. The current scenario is aimed at inciting Ukraine against Russia and waging a war of the entire West against Russia. It is largely targeted at preventing a new rapprochement between Germany and Russia.

The United States decided that we had been cooperating with Germany too well in the past 20 or 30 years; or, to be more precise, that Germany had cooperated too well with us. A powerful alliance based on our energy resources and German technology began to threaten the monopoly of many US corporations. Therefore, it was necessary to destroy it and do it in the literal sense of this word. In effect, US officials have acknowledged that the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 explosions were their doing. Now they are even eager to talk about it. It should be said here that friendship between the two countries, national reconciliation like what happened with the Russians and Germans, really stuck in the craw of those who don’t want anyone else on the planet to be able to compete with the main hegemon, as the US declared itself.

We stand for justice. We are not going to invent anything new. After WWII, the victors wrote the UN Charter. This document remains a very important foundation for building a new world. We must respect its words about the need to ensure the sovereign equality of states. Just as citizens should enjoy equal rights in any country, all states on the planet should have equal rights and be equally respected.

Question: What is a diplomat?

Sergey Lavrov: I am. At this point, we should return to the first question: what forms one’s character and how to educate oneself.

For a diplomat, it is all about knowledge, knowledge, knowledge. Erudition in all spheres without exception and not only in history or language skills. Nowadays, diplomats should be well versed in modern technology and cybersecurity because all these issues are discussed at diplomatic forums.

Cybersecurity is a subject of many Russian initiatives that the UN supports and implements. All UN members take part in the committee that is drafting principles for ensuring international information security to prevent IT from being used for military purposes.

In parallel, work is underway on our initiative to draft a convention countering cybercrime. This is also being done by a special committee that includes all UN members.

Or take climate change. Of course, this issue requires special knowledge. A diplomat cannot replace an environmental scientist but he should understand what he is talking about. It is diplomats who hold talks on preventing global temperatures from increasing by more than 1.5 degrees. Participants in the 2022 UN Climate Change Conference (COP 27) (Egypt, November 6-20, 2022) had intense debates on this issue. They will soon hold another regular session. Naturally, their delegations include narrow experts as well but diplomats must keep an eye on the big picture as direct participants in these talks.

Or take disarmament issues. How can a diplomat promote arms non-proliferation and limitation without knowing inside out the problems related to modern weapons, including nuclear arms? Nuclear non-proliferation is one of our key priorities.

In the final analysis, it is impossible to separate any sphere of human life from the activities of international organisations. The world’s development has become global and universal communications technology has appeared. The consequences of human activity have acquired a global dimension that is not limited to climate change. Energy issues are also global. Food security concerns everyone. If life is bad somewhere, refugees will run to you. Therefore, you should know all these issues to the extent that you want and must take part in resolving them. So study, study, study.

Question: You are a successful diplomat, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation. Looking backward, what else might you have wanted for little Seryozha Lavrov, a schoolboy from a regular school?

Sergey Lavrov: It has never occurred to me that I might wish to return to the past and live a new life. I am content with what has formed my personality. Of course, not all periods in my life were blissful. I did well academically but never denied myself the joy of time with friends. Since school, and later at the institute, we made all kinds of mischief. We wrote kapustniks (skits) and staged them at parties at both school and the institute. After we graduated from the institute and went to work, we continued to get together and put on these kapustniks.

Of course, there’s sports. I am fond of football and skiing. Sports shape you as a person. It helps me to maintain myself as a functioning diplomat.  

Time with friends. I talked a lot about friendship today. I still meet with people from secondary school. MGIMO graduates from our year hold meetings every year. The latest meeting was literally on the eve of the New Year.

Nature. Rafting which I love. The Altai and Krasnodar territories, wild rivers. No, I wouldn’t change a thing.

We have to cherish what makes us better in our own eyes. Love every day that is given to us. Make this day count as much as possible for yourself, your friends and family.

Question: In the 1980s, Samantha Smith and Katya Lychyova became ambassadors of peace and promoted a rapprochement between our countries. Do you think children today can become peacemakers? Will adults hear what we are saying?

Sergey Lavrov: Today’s children are already becoming peacemakers. Take this video with a boy who is playing the role of a traffic controller and directing our equipment on the frontlines of the special military operation.

I saw one more video recently. The father, if I’m not mistaken, is playing guitar and his son – about ten years old – is singing a well-known moving song “Don’t fight with Russians.”

Look at the paintings that children are sending to the front. We see from reports of military correspondents how important this is for soldiers and how warmly they respond. Some children, mostly teenagers, visit locations of our fighters together with artists and stage mini concerts with them.

There was a touching exhibition of drawings “Children of Donbass Paint” in New Arbat. It is an important demonstration of the harmony, unity in society about which we talked today. Children brought up in these traditions understand that there are sacred things in life. They will become true patriots.

We talked about patriotism but did not expand on this idea. For me, being patriotic means being proud of my homeland. People probably have many different ways of measuring this feeling.

When the special military operation was launched many people (in the West – I won’t even comment on this, but we heard quite a few of their soulmates here) said: “Why? Now we will be deprived of the factors of life that gave us comfort and confidence in tomorrow.” They asked: “For the sake of what have you done this?” By comfort, they meant Western goods to which everyone had become accustomed. They mentioned IKEA and McDonald’s. They had in mind the ability to travel and study abroad. Meanwhile, many of our students were “asked” to leave. This is a manifestation of Russophobia, of racism essentially.

They started complaining about a situation that had been created for the sake of “some territories” because it upset the lives and peace of many people and their families. This was logic of some of our citizens. Practically all of them have left now and are trying to regain the lost comfort in new places.

Meanwhile, I am seeing an opposite trend in our society. By society, I mean people who live and work here, who solve problems, who see them (both the President and the Government see them and talk about them openly). Society means people that feel part of our history.

I quoted for you Jake Sullivan, a US official: “No vision of American exceptionalism can succeed if the United States does not defeat the emerging vision that emphasizes ethnic and cultural identity…”. US exceptionalism means striving to deprive everyone of identity, change them as the US sees fit, make them convenient tools for use in the different conflicts that Washington is kindling all over the world, as well as in other situations, the economy, etc.

A proper human being of good upbringing who went to school and heard teachers teach them proper things cannot think that ethnic (Russian or any other) identity of the peoples of our country is of secondary importance. They will be unable come to grips with the notion that their ethnic roots should be forgotten. To me, ancestry, family, ethnicity, and language are one. Along with Russian, we are supporting more than 100 languages in our country, including languages of very small indigenous groups.

To ensure Russia’s unity, it is important for the Russian language to unite everyone. That’s the way it is. This year, within the CIS, Russian Language Year is being held as a year of the language of interethnic communication. For the harmony to come naturally, things that we do in relation to the languages of small indigenous groups, their traditions and cultures are important. National cultural festivals are held in Yakutia, Dagestan, Ingushetia, and Chechnya. They are part of Russian culture which never tried to sideline cultures of the peoples which are one with the Russian state.

For me, there is no such thing as a country without a sense of belonging to ancestors and continuing the traditions of my small homeland and the vast Motherland, Russia. National pride is one of the reasons why we are defending the Russian world. It is the reason, as President Vladimir Putin made clear, for the special military operation.

In Ukraine, not only NATO created threats by deploying weapons there that posed problems for the Russian Federation. They emboldened the Kiev regime, openly and using legal tools, as they were consistently destroying the rights of the Ukrainian citizens who identified as bearers of Russian culture. They wanted to be citizens of Ukraine, but at the same time be able to speak Russian, read Russian-language newspapers, use Russian-language television and mass media, and teach their children in Russian. All of that was banned.

The Commissioner for the Protection of the State Language of Ukraine proposed banning interpersonal communication in Russian. What does this mean? Two people in Ukraine - for example, a husband and wife, wherever they may be (in their kitchen or in a park) - would not be allowed to speak Russian. If this is not Nazism, I’m not sure what it is. And the West is trying to justify this.

Vladimir Zelensky said anyone who identified as a Russian and lived in Ukraine should “clear out” to Russia. They are trying to banish Russians from places where they lived for centuries, including the bulk of this time as part of our common country.

If we were to leave them behind and failed to stand up for their rights, not some far-fetched rights, but the rights that have been enshrined in dozens of international conventions, of which Ukraine is a member, Russia would be worthless as that great power that it was, is and will be.

Question: 2023 was declared Year of the Mentor and Educator. Did you have a mentor?

Sergey Lavrov: I had many. In elementary school, it was our homeroom teacher. Then the homeroom teacher in the secondary school (a teacher of physics), who got me to consider going to MEPhI or the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology. However, life had other plans for me.

I had mentors at the Foreign Ministry as well. Soon after I graduated, I spend two months working in Moscow and left for the Soviet Embassy in Sri Lanka. Soviet Ambassador Rafik Nishanov became my first real teacher. Prior to that, he served as the second secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Uzbekistan. As an experienced politician, he taught me a lot.

Then, there were senior Foreign Ministry officials after I came back from Sri Lanka, particularly Yevgeny Primakov. He was appointed minister when I worked as Russia's Permanent Representative to the UN. By that time, I had some experience under the belt. We communicated before, when he held other offices. When he became a minister, I started working with him closely. He offered great schooling for any diplomat or politician. Mr Primakov was more than a diplomat. He was a statesman, a prime minister, the head of the foreign intelligence service, a scholar, and the director of an institute. He is teacher number one for us all.

Be sure to take care of your teachers.