President Putin: Thank you very much. I want first of all to thank French President Jacques Chirac for the invitation to Paris on such a short visit. Indeed, the situation in the world and our bilateral relations have been developing very energetically, intensively, and this calls for our consultations at each convenient opportunity. I am grateful, I once again repeat it, for the opportunity on such a short visit to come to Paris.

Our meeting was indeed brief, but exceptionally saturated. Perhaps, in such an informal mode - not overbureaucratized - it is easier to discuss many questions, to arrive at decisions.

Russian-French political dialogue is today actively developing, as I already said. A new impetus has been received in the trade-and-economic and investment fields. But it seems to me that in this area there exists a gap from the level of political cooperation that has emerged between the Russian Federation and the French Republic.

Our trade today is not bad - three and a half - well, perhaps, on the results of an estimate, we will draw the conclusion that this will be approximately three and a half billion dollars. You will agree that after all for Russia and France, this is not very much. With Poland we have almost 6 billion now. Not to mention Germany, with which the volume of trade is 20 billion. The France-Russia potential is, of course, greater than the level reached. And if we advance in the most interesting fields of cooperation in which the French and Russian peoples are interested, then we will doubtless cope with many of the economic and social problems facing our populations, the populations of Russia and France. I mean unemployment, living standards, and so on.

And in this context I am, of course, grateful to the President for raising some questions of a global character. There are other questions, though, which today we have not yet touched on, but they are no less important. It is cooperation in the field of energy and in other high technology fields.

Mr. President touched on our cooperation in the area of development of outer space, and this has a very down-to-earth meaning for the economies of our states. Especially in the areas where both Russia and France perform remarkably well. I think if we follow this line, we only stand to gain.

In relations with France Russia intends to continue its policy for strengthening and developing the privileged relations of partnership. We high value the initiatives of the French President, Mr. Chirac, aimed at bringing Russia and the European Union closer, more specifically at recognizing the status of Russia as a global EU partner, and the President's proposals for creating a Russia-EU Internal Security Council.

Once again I would like to stress: Russia is interested in the early creation in Europe of a single security space and of a common economic, cultural, educational and legal field. As before, we consider France a major partner in dealing with strategic stability issues. We have agreed, the President already said that, I want to confirm, we've agreed with President Chirac on the creation of the Security Council with the participation of foreign and defense ministers and, if required, the representatives of other ministries and departments, as well.

Russia and France intend to cooperate more effectively in the fight against international terrorism. I think that the Council of which we spoke will be a good instrument filling the development of Russian relations with NATO and the incipient structures of European security. To us this is of special interest, because France is a nuclear power.

Of course, we also spoke of the problems that were mentioned here. It is both Afghanistan and the Middle East. I must say that on a number of key issues of an international character, to use the usual phrase, the positions of Russia and France are either similar or practically identical. I want to thank the President for today's dialogue. It was important for me and for my colleagues. We will continue cooperation with France in the above areas in the same constructive spirit. Thank you very much.

Question: Today practically all of France's national media featured articles in which not to say very positively, were presented individual aspects of Russian policy. There are even quite indecent caricatures. How do you feel about such publications?

President Putin: The purpose for which the media exist is to state different points of view. And I do not think that we should pout and feel hurt. I think we must try more convincingly to prove our truth on some or other aspects of policy which cause doubts.

Question: A question to both Presidents regarding Russia's cooperation with NATO. Today, this was spoken briefly of. How is it to be explained that there exists a certain skepticism on the part of some European leaders even at the present stage as to the possibility of deepening the cooperation with Russia? The Group of Twenty mechanism, of which some European leaders spoke, wasn't supported by all, either. What is the French President's point of view? Does he intend to take concrete steps to improve the work of this mechanism?

President Putin: There is nothing unusual here. Caution is quite natural. It did not arise overnight. It arose decades ago. And it was linked to the confrontation of the two systems, one of which the Soviet Union personified. Not many grasp the depth of the processes now occurring. It will, evidently, be some time before these people realize that the world has so changed that it requires a new configuration in the field of security with the involvement of all the leading countries of Europe, all countries of the world for combining the efforts of all mankind to neutralize the new threats with which the world has been faced today. This takes time, patience, persevering and professional work. We are ready for such work and on the whole meet with understanding from our partners. I am confident that we will solve these problems.

Question: A question to both Presidents. You spoke about many things: about Afghanistan, about other corners of the world, but you did not say a single word about the Middle East. President Putin did say a couple of words about the Middle East. But I am asking: Did you discuss this theme at all? The situation is extremely grave, it seems to me that it is graver than the problem of Afghanistan and the problem of the fight against terrorism, which is connected with the Middle East as well.

President Putin: Of course, we did devote enough time to the Middle East problem. I briefed Mr. President on my recent talk with the Israeli Prime Minister. Our representatives and Ambassador Andrei Vdovin are in continual contact with the leadership of the Palestinian Autonomy, and only recently a meeting between Chairman Yasser Arafat and our representative took place.

All this was the subject of discussion with the French President. It remains only to add that I agree with his opinion that there is only the path of resuming the negotiation process. Here no other scheme can be proposed.

You know that I recalled my conversation with Chairman Arafat and today told the President about it. When I for my part, and the French leadership for its part, had been trying to persuade Chairman Arafat to agree with the proposals of former Israeli prime minister Barak, we had heard, regrettably: well then, let Barak go, it can't be worse. I do not think that now Chairman Arafat thinks as he did. I recalled that and told Ariel Sharon about the conversation, warning him about the too tough stand of Chairman Arafat himself today. It seems to me that a true diplomacy, as we well know, is the path of a compromise, and it's necessary to look for those compromises. We are ready - Russia, as a cosponsor of settlement, and France and the European Union are ready to take part in this.

Question: Do you think you are going to have to wage a struggle against terrorism in Chechnya in the future as well?

President Putin: You know, when we speak of double standards, in our country both in the press and among the political circles this term is being used quite widely. What do we mean? There is Afghanistan, the now universally notorious criminal terrorist organization Al-Qaeda is operating there, and it is shielded by a criminal regime - more precisely, was shielded by the Taliban. And all agree that this has to be fought against, and we have actively backed that up.

The same Al-Qaeda, its representatives or organizations of this kind, but including Al-Qaeda, functioned on the territory of Chechnya. It was shielded by another criminal regime, which contributed to the fact that on the territory of Chechnya there had turned out to be more than 2,000 kidnapped people from other parts of the Russian Federation. There people were being shot in the squares, without trial or investigation, including women. People were being decapitated there alive, I want to stress this, and it is well known to all.

What makes this criminal regime different from the Taliban? It is no different, except only perhaps that it is bloodier. And we have a full right to use all the available means against it, if legal means are not enough.

Apart from all other things, I want to stress that this was, is and will be an internal problem of Russia, which we, of course, want to solve. Today we are dealing with international terrorism steeped in separatism there, and now this is even hard to separate. This is another issue, which should induce us all to ponder what is happening in the world, in Europe and in Russia among others.

For we back separatists nowhere, and the problem of separatism is not only so acute in Russia, as with us in Chechnya. It also exists in Turkey and other countries. There is also the struggle of the Kurdish people for independence. What, we have forgotten about the Kurdish people? And they number 40 million. Does Europe have no problems linked with separatism? Why no one even thinks of supporting it! And rightly so, because if we just try to do so, we will plunge Europe into chaos. Both Western, and the more so Eastern.

On September 11 the world jumped, as that was indeed an impertinent crime against all humanity. But Russia had give a start even earlier, when hundreds of our people died in Moscow and other large cities from apartment-house explosions. I assure you that the blood of the Russian people who died in Moscow at the time is no different in color from the blood of the Russians who died at the Trade Center in New York and, of course, no different from the blood of the people killed in New York on September 11 who represent other countries and other peoples.

This is our common problem, and, I think, we must solve it without fuss, without hysterics, but with an awareness of the responsibility to our peoples and states. This must not be, in our opinion, the object of a haggle or speculation. Therefore as distinct from many other situations in the world, similar or resembling, Russia is utterly open for the international community in dealing with all the problems with which our country is also faced now.

There is not one international organization that had wished to acquaint itself with or take part in the solution of the problems in Chechnya and which we would have refused. It is the Red Cross, Council of Europe, you name it. Right now, there is a regular Council of Europe delegation staying there.

To solve questions of a political nature, of course, is only possible by political means, but not with bandits. They must either sit in prison or be destroyed. In this spirit we, through a political dialogue with the people and by waging an implacable struggle against the terrorists, will continue to act. If, however, we establish that crimes have been perpetrated by Russian officials, including servicemen, we will institute criminal proceedings against them. I want to inform you that criminal proceedings have already been initiated against more than twenty Russian army members. A judicial system, prosecutor's offices and other law enforcement bodies are fully back in place on the territory of Chechnya, and we are going to build up this activity.

Question: In Moscow the Ekho Moskvy radio was being closed, now TV-6 is being closed. Aren't you worried about the state of democracy in the Russian Federation?

President Putin: You know, of course, Russia is in a rather difficult position, since it is going through a transition period, trying (God forbid you should) to live in a time of drastic change. Herein the great wisdom of the Chinese people shows itself.

We have many problems. I do not doubt that we will solve them. One of them is the formation of a civil society and freedom of the press. Without this there can be no democratic society. The question is - how to do that, what to consider a free press and how is the state to treat the processes which are occurring in this field?

You know (I yesterday communicated with representatives of the press), when in our country a man steals a bag of potatoes or gets drunk and has a fight with a neighbor - he is either a hooligan or a thief. He is put in jail. But if a man steals hundreds of millions of dollars, he becomes a political figure, you can't touch him. Plenty of this kind figures emerged in our country during the restructuring of the economy and transition to market relations. With the object of retaining their influence on society, on the state, these people, who used to cause an allergy in the West, by the way, for years, and who thanks to the press are called oligarchs in our country, subjected national media to themselves. And where this concerned the state, the state tried to regain something. Where a conflict starts between them, including a conflict of material interests, as we today see in the case of TV-6, the state does not intervene, nor can it. Because if the company for several years showed loss, one of the shareholders, evidently, had a right to get indignant, having received no dividends. It is incomprehensible what he invested his money there for.

We did not intervene, are not intervening and have no intention of doing so. As far as I know, the management of the company itself sent a request to the Government and ministries that its license be taken away from it, so that somehow the work collective, the journalist staff could further take part in the struggle for this license. I know many of these journalists personally, treat them with great respect. They are really very talented people. And what will depend on us, from the point of view of backing up the work collective, we will do everything.

Question: You have again expressed your regret that the level of political and diplomatic relations between the two countries is much higher than the level of economic relations. Why?

President Putin: You know this is not even a complaint, it is a statement of the fact that we have a field of activity for constructive work to which we, in my opinion, pay insufficient attention. But, perhaps, this is only natural, because first, probably, it is necessary to build basic elements of a construction of relations between states, which we have been doing over the recent period with Mr. President.

But positive trends in the economic ties between the two countries do exist, nevertheless. We would like very much that our bilateral relations would be built into the system of Russian relations with the European Union in the main areas in which we're arranging with the EU for joint work. This, let us assume, is the energy dialogue.

Major French companies are already operating in Russia in the energy field; for example, at the Kharyaga Field a French firm is operating. Now they are considering the possibility of their participation in the Shtokman Oil and Gas Field. The estimated volume of investment there must amount to three to five billion dollars. If we, on the one hand, in the energy field, and on the other hand, in high technologies will actively promote our own national interests, we will thus contribute to the growth of many-sided cooperation in Europe as well. I repeat, this is not a complaint, but a statement of the fact that a great deal has yet to be done.

Question: What importance is being attached to cultural cooperation at this stage of relations between France and Russia?

President Putin: I must say that for me it is always not only useful, but also interesting to meet with the President of France. He among the first persons of the Eight of Europe is an indisputable expert on very many questions, including on some questions of our cultural cooperation. The President has come up with an initiative for holding a number of events. I think he will himself say about that, and we will support them with pleasure. Generally speaking, the cultural dialogue between Russia and France is an object of special consideration and, and I can say without exaggeration, and many will agree with me, that it is the object of France's and Russia's pride. Because the mutual influence of the cultures of Russia and France on each other is very great, the peoples of France and Russia have only benefited from this always. We do not forget that. Thank you very much.

Question: What can you say about the case of Pasko?

President Putin: About Pasko: I do not want you to gather the impression that we are somehow trying to get away from this problem. This problem is of a purely legal character. Frankly, I am not that much absorbed in this problem. I know only that Mr. Pasko is being charged with handing over "secret" document to representatives of a foreign state for remuneration. This fact actually is not even being contested by anyone, I think, even by his lawyers. Although I have difficulty telling you about details, I simply do not know them. But the content itself hardly presents any state interest now. Therefore, I think that this is purely a question of a formal character, I do not consider that I should intervene in the legal process.

If we take this path, we will build nothing good in Russia, there will be no law-governed state. Because in our country, just as in any other nation, which calls itself democratic, there must operate the separation between authority and the courts. These, fortunately, are independent branches of power. If, however, this question reaches the level of President as the Head of State, in accordance with the law, and it may if Mr. Pasko appeals for pardon, it will be considered.

As to the judicial system, I think that better than anyone else, the French understand the problem of relations with the courts. Like it or not, but the courts so decide as they think fit to decide under the law. I repeat, though, some decisions may evoke a mixed reaction. Thus, for example, as in the case of Russian citizen Zakharova, who, strange as that may seem to us, is being denied the right to communicate in France with her daughter in her native tongue.

Well, it's an outrage. They are denying her the right to attend Orthodox church. Mr. President and I discussed this theme. He also spread his hands and says: "Well, at first glance it's absurd, but, perhaps, they do have some reasons on that count?" No, I can hardly imagine what those reasons might be, but give its due to the fact that in the country there exists a strict separation of powers, and executive authority cannot intervene in the activities of judicial authorities. Although we, of course, via diplomatic channels will continue to work for questions of this kind, of a humanitarian nature to be solved from the point of view of not only the law, but of common sense, as well. Thank you for your attention.


___________________________________________________________
© Publication of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation.